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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
 Posted - 11/19/2002 : 5:51:22 PM
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If humans had one less finger, would guitars have one less string?
That's my question. I think the answer is probably obvious, but if you think through all the implications, ... well, let me put it this way so as not to project ... When I thought through all the implications, I was intrigued.
I'll leave off my ramblings for now, but I'd like to know what you think, and more importantly, why you think it. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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{=HTG=}
Alien Abductee
USA
2342 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 6:32:26 PM
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We'd actually be like the people that populate the Simpsons world.  |
'HTG, are you a cute girl?'
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 8:56:01 PM
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| I think that music wouldn't be as good in general. I guess it really depends on which finger. If it's the thumb, then forget about music all together. I think if it's the pinky, it would have the least impact. I mean, for guitar, you could still play all the basic barre chords......there would be just a little more practice involved. Anyway, if we all had one less finger, I think music would be the least of our worries. |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 9:51:44 PM
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Ok, this probably doesn't fit here, but I don't play a guitar and don't know much about them however at the Peter Gabriel concert I got to see Tony Levin using the Funk Fingers.....amazing!!!!!!Does anyone else use them?????? |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 10:59:36 PM
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| I'll go with the one less finger making us like HTG said: Like the Simpsons. So we'd still be opposable, just we'd have only 3 fingers and a thumb. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 08:35:52 AM
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Here's an unrelated question. Explanation first: It's pretty well understood that animals have their own 'speed' and move at that speed. They also understand at that speed. Snails often don't even register something flying right past them. They just don't see it as happening, so to them, it doesn't happen. But on a different scale, other animals don't register things that happen to them or around then because the things happen so fast. A turtle might not notice birds, etc.
But this seems to be pretty universal. There are things that happen so fast for birds that they don't notice them.
My question: What is there that happens so fast around us or to us that we don't even notice it? And I mean physically and mentally just not register it. I have no idea. But I think it's significant. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 09:54:37 AM
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Hey Jason, your second question is quite interesting, I will have to think about that one a bit.
As for your first question, 2 examples of amazing guitar players minus 1 finger: Jerry Garcia and Phil Keaggy. First, I think if we all suddenly lost a finger we would manage to adapt in our ability to manipulate a 6 string instrument. Keep in mind, 5 fingered instrumentalists manage to manipulate 7-string, 8-string, 12-string instruments and many other variations of string setups regardless of their finger limitations. Sitar for instance. Which brings me to my second part, If we had always as humans had one less finger, as opposed to losing a finger and having to adapt to an already created isntrument, the instruments we know and love may have been created differently based on our fingers OR would they? I don't know alot about the playing of stringed instruments, obviously, but from what little I know, instruments are setup so we can cover the musical scale and the amount of strings are not based on our number of fingers. So I think the instruments would have still developed the same way but we would have figured out different ways of playing the instrument and creating the chords using the digits we were provided.
Very interesting questions and I am very interested in hearing some of the guitar players theories on this question as they should have a much better grasp of the subject than I with my limited knowledge of making music on stringed instruments. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy         
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 11:07:25 AM
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I think if the guitar had been designed for people with one less finger it very well may have been designed with one less string... but like Fluffy said, that's not to say that there wouldn't be 6 string instruments out there. A STANDARD guitar might just be 5 strings instead of 6. That would be funny, because then a 12 string wouldn't really be a 12 string anymore, it'd be a 10 string.
Your second question does seem interesting. I can only think of a few things off the top of my head... I'd say things that happen faster than we can notice are things like the speed of light, sound, or bullets... single frames in something like a movie or a single refresh of a computer monitor (allthough we'd probably think we'd seen something, we wouldn't have a clue what it is). Hmm... more things... neural impulses, electrical signals, ultra high frequencies of sound or light. I guess there are a lot of things. But you were probably looking for something a little less scientifically oriented and more theoretical/abstract. I will have to think about that though. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 11:15:55 AM
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No, I didn't really have anything in mind when I asked. Some of your answers I had though of, some I hadn't. But they're all physical things, just like a bird flying in front of a snail. Only the scale is different.
What I'm suggesting wouldn't be anything major. Not like another dimension or anything. Birds in a snails world wouldn't add another dimension, they would just add something that would be infinitely harder to understand, almost to the point of incomprehensibility. And if that is so for us, then that would suggest that there are things that we can't possibly understand. And that makes me feel very small. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 2:32:57 PM
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I think it's interesting to point out a few things. If a bird was to stop in front of a snail (since that's the prevalent example here), the snail would most definately notice it. Like Silky mentioned, it might be in a sort of jump frame, but it would be noticed. And I think it's safe to say that most things can recognize the things that are in a different time frame, if the faster thing slows down long enough. It would be hard to say what that might be for us. We never blink, see a giant flying toe settle in front of us, then blink again and see it going or gone. If we did, it would be easy to say that there are things all about us moving amongst us, missing us by choice (birds don't often fly into snails, I imagine). But without that, I'd say it's hard to think about, much less prove.
Any thoughts? |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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JamminJames
Is Anybody Here?
1 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 3:13:01 PM
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I felt you hinting a little that size had some effect on the person who thing's ability to be aware of whats is around them. This is somewhat true, there are a lot of things we can not see, that can be seen by smaller organisms. But since a snail is not intellegent, it doesn't know what to make of anything, it has no way to rationalize what it sees. It's thoughts mostly revolve around its basic needs, which is about all it can comprehend. Humans on the other hand, in our amazing abilities and ingenuity, have found ways of seeing and understanding most anything we worked for. Nearly unlimited, and if limited, only by our natural resources. But I'd rather live on this planet with all its beauty, rather that being some alien with advanced technology, attacking earth because they're planet with mechanically fruitfull resources, ran out of living resources. But I guess there may be huge things that revolve around the galaxy and shit out there we cant see and understand yet as well.
The quitar would remain having 6 strings. It's designed around music and science, not so much around how many fingers we have. Music would still be great if we only had 4 fingers though. Just imagine a 6 fingered person. How much better than us could they really be? Lots of different styles would spawn from 4 fingered and 6 fingered humans as each hand stretchs differently, it would use scales more easily applied with their hands. |
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 3:45:26 PM
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JamminJames said: quote:
The quitar would remain having 6 strings. It's designed around music and science, not so much around how many fingers we have. Music would still be great if we only had 4 fingers though. Just imagine a 6 fingered person. How much better than us could they really be? Lots of different styles would spawn from 4 fingered and 6 fingered humans as each hand stretchs differently, it would use scales more easily applied with their hands.
That is kind of what I thought and what I was trying to say. I have really enjoyed reading the responses to the other questions and I am still formulating my opinion on that. So far the ones offered up have been quite interesting and have provided much food for thought. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 4:37:45 PM
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| VWF Funk Fingers are short(I am guessing they are about 4" long) wooden pieces that fit on the finger and the guitarist taps the stings with them. Don't know how they do it but they are pretty facinating. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 4:57:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JamminJames
Just imagine a 6 fingered person. How much better than us could they really be? Lots of different styles would spawn from 4 fingered and 6 fingered humans as each hand stretchs differently, it would use scales more easily applied with their hands.
After I saw an episode of the X-Files about people with six fingers, I thought how kewl it would be to have an additional finger for instrument playing. I'm sure it would increase the speed at which you could play. Which brings me to a question I've been thinking about.......is there a maximum speed which you can reach when playing the guitar? And if you could go extremely fast, would it just reach a point to where it would sound like a constant note (i.e. a violin)? |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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Evergreen
Yak Addict
960 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 5:24:08 PM
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quote:
What is there that happens so fast around us or to us that we don't even notice it? And I mean physically and mentally just not register it.
Extra Terrestrials is my answer to that.
EnthuTIMsiast, I like the way your mind works. You're always coming up with the most profound stuff and I mean that in a good way.
Django also had a damaged hand. I'm not sure if he was actually missing fingers or if he got burned and 2 were fused together. something like that.
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 6:10:04 PM
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| I've been thinking about this......and I keep coming back to one thing: the multiverse. In the book Timeline by Michael Crichton, he explains the concept of the multiverse in quantum physics. It's basically an infinite number of universes (different dimensions so to speak). Since there's an infinite number of them, there can be vast differences among them. For example, there's a universe where Germany won WWII, and there's a universe where you had a hamburger instead of a cheeseburger for lunch. Obviously, you can't see these otherwise you'd be immobilized because you couldn't distinguish one dimension from the other. I don't know if this is true or not, but it is pretty kewl to think about. And Silky touched upon the others things I was thinking about......infrared, ultraviolet, electrons, etc. |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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tericee
Alien Abductee
USA
2579 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 7:44:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by pcbdmb
After I saw an episode of the X-Files about people with six fingers, I thought how kewl it would be to have an additional finger for instrument playing.
Cool, but evil. The six fingered man was evil.
Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father: prepare to die. |
teri 
Twittering about the DC adventure since Dec '09...
(Micro)Blog * Photo Album
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 8:51:19 PM
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| Never mess with a Sicilian when death is on the line! |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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{=HTG=}
Alien Abductee
USA
2342 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 10:27:52 PM
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| Flamingjoemoe anyone? |
'HTG, are you a cute girl?'
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victorwootenfan
Alien Abductee
USA
2128 Posts |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2002 : 04:26:55 AM
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Tericee said: quote:
Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father: prepare to die.
STOP SAYING THAT!!!!! |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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PJK
Alien Abductee
USA
4159 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2002 : 07:29:38 AM
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VWF I think there is something somewhere on Tony's website about the funk fingers, I am not sure. Not too many people have heard of them.
Tony's site www.papabear.com is very interesting if you have time to kill. |
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"Friedrich Nietzsche |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2002 : 08:40:50 AM
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quote:
JamminJames: I felt you hinting a little that size had some effect on the person who thing's ability to be aware of whats is around them. This is somewhat true, there are a lot of things we can not see, that can be seen by smaller organisms. But since a snail is not intellegent, it doesn't know what to make of anything, it has no way to rationalize what it sees. It's thoughts mostly revolve around its basic needs, which is about all it can comprehend. Humans on the other hand, in our amazing abilities and ingenuity, have found ways of seeing and understanding most anything we worked for. Nearly unlimited, and if limited, only by our natural resources.
I understand what you're saying and would be initially tempted to agree. But then I'd have to step back and say that maybe it's this very inflated self-image that keeps us from seeing whatever's out there in the first place. We think, "well we've run the gamut with natural resources, we can look no smaller, and things bigger are too far away for us to see, so we have seen everything." Now shift your perspective. What other resources does a snail have with which to see a fast bird? I think playing the intelligence/reasoning argument is weak. There could be millions of things that we've used our intelligence or reasoning to see, but something right in front of us wouldn't need that. What I'm suggesting with the snail (again, maybe it's not that great of an example) is something physical that it can't see. Not a reason it can't see.
My main point is this: What if your reason for us not having missed anything around us is the very reason we are missing things around us? |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 12:27:00 AM
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Tericee said: quote:
Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father: prepare to die.
STOP SAYING THAT!!!!!
NOONE? NOT EVEN TERI? |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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therippa
Fluffy-Esque
Kazakhstan
1099 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 12:31:25 AM
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(When Homer gets medicinal marijuana)
Homer: Aww, forget them. Let's just stay here and stare at our hands.
Otto: Man, they call them fingers, but I've never seen them "fing"...oh wait, there they go. |
Aspiring to Be Fluffy-Esque an Alien Abductee! |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 8:13:58 PM
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quote:
My question: What is there that happens so fast around us or to us that we don't even notice it? And I mean physically and mentally just not register it. I have no idea. But I think it's significant.
GOLDEN SNITCHES!!!
Obviously a less philosophical than you were probably looking for. HEHE |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2002 : 5:52:19 PM
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| Forgot to mention this before I left... but in one of my psych classes, the question of what would be different if we had one less finger came up. Kinda wierd. |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2002 : 9:29:16 PM
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| We could only count to 8 with the fingers we were given and we might be able to get guest spots as extras on the Simpsons. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 04:36:09 AM
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| Ahhhhh.....a dream come true. |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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{=HTG=}
Alien Abductee
USA
2342 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 06:36:46 AM
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| I'd chill with The Comic Book Guy. |
'HTG, are you a cute girl?'
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 5:48:28 PM
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| I thought of the most intriguing question last night. But I didn't write it down, and now I've forgotten it...so I can't ask. I thought it was cool, anyway. Maybe tonight while I'm trying to go to sleep I'll remember it, then not write it down and just forget it again...ah, when will I learn? |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Dickey500
Chatterbox
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 6:08:12 PM
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I wanna go the other route...
If we had 6 fingers, which one would we flip people off with? There's no more "middle" finger with 6. My life as a rage-filled driver would be completely ruined. I guess I'd just settle for a good fist-shaking. |
"All of us contain Music & Truth, but most of us can't get it out." - Mark Twain |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2002 : 7:33:41 PM
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| There's just not enough good ol' fashioned fist shaking these days... |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2002 : 03:22:19 AM
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| Or you could just wave them the english bird, which is a peace sign turned around so whoever you are giving it to is looking at the back of your hand, and then wave it up and down. 5 or 6 fingers, doesn't matter on that one. |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2002 : 1:59:50 PM
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Ugh.......too much work involved with that one.
quote:
Originally posted by Silky The Pimp
There's just not enough good ol' fashioned fist shaking these days...
Reminds me of when Homer uses Ned's RV to take back the lemon tree, and the "Bizarro" Homer chases after them with his son. "Shake harder boy!" |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2002 : 4:18:04 PM
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| No it was nothing like that. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2002 : 05:41:51 AM
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Tericee said: quote:
Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father: prepare to die.
STOP SAYING THAT!!!!!
NOONE? NOT EVEN TERI? |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2002 : 10:13:19 AM
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| no one what? even Teri? Get the quote? Yeah, even I get the quote...you must mean something else... Ok, well I don't know what... |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Fluffy
Administrator
USA
10739 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 05:55:47 AM
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NOPE, that was it, the quote. GEEZ, I am glad someone finally got it.
Thanx for acknowledging!! |
Peace & Keep the Faith
Fluffy
"THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS A CRUEL AND SHALLOW MONEY TRENCH-- A LONG PLASTIC HALLWAY WHERE THIEVES AND PIMPS RUN FREE AND GOOD MEN DIE LIKE DOGS. THERE'S ALSO A NEGATIVE SIDE..." -Hunter S. Thompson |
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Silky The Pimp
Alien Abductee
3321 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 11:18:23 AM
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| That movie is so great... I love how in the fire swamp, if you look closely at the giant rat, you can see by the rear legs that it's just a midget in a rat costume. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 12:15:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Silky The Pimp
it's just a midget in a rat costume.
Ahh...that brought a smile to my face. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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bugman96
Chatterbox
148 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 4:21:31 PM
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| If humans had one less finger, the instruments we know today wouldn't exist (with drums being a major exception), although there would be similarities. Instruments would be developed with respect to a 4 fingered hand. |
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pcbTIM
Alien Abductee
USA
6501 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2002 : 4:21:33 PM
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| I think that'll bring a smile to anyone's face. |
Gay marriage killed the dinosaurs. |
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enthuTIMsiast
Alien Abductee
6990 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2002 : 5:29:59 PM
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| very true... aaahhh midgets. Can't live with them, and quite frankly, I don't think we can live with out them, unless they know how to beat flood control. |
Tim Reynolds Downloads
I am not the albatross of love, I am the human ellipsis. I am dot dot dot. - Leo Kottke
I hate beating people over the head with anything. We can all make up our own minds. What we don’t have is enough music. More music please. - Leo Kottke |
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Topic |
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If humans had one less finger,
